Comments on: Morrowind 2011 Mod Compilation Threatened http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/ Independent PC Game Reviews & Guides Mon, 14 Aug 2017 03:31:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Aaron http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-240 Thu, 01 Nov 2012 23:09:28 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-240 Wow it’s been so long I messed this up. Of course I meant to say this is a Morrowind compilation, not an Oblivion compilation :)

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By: Aaron http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-239 Thu, 01 Nov 2012 23:08:05 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-239 @Troika This is an old thread regarding a mod compilation made for Oblivion, not for Skyrim. Also, derivative works appearing in mods are not necessarily the same thing as mods and copyright laws are extremely complicated.

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By: Troika http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-238 Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:16:23 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-238 Skyrim’s TOS for the game and the editor explicitly forbid any claim of copyright or control over mods, and actually declare your End-User License void if you do. So, suck it, whiny modders.

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By: Diceman http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-237 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:29:55 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-237 oh look, a bunch of faggot modders who didn’t read the TOA for the toolkit and the licensing agreement for both it and the game.

EVERYTHING YOU MAKE BELONGS TO BETHESDA.

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By: Morrowind 2011 Compilation version 2.0 http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-236 Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:00:36 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-236 [...] of you will remember the article we wrote in January 2011, which spoke about Tyler Smith and his Mod compilation for Morrowind. We were very impressed with the effort that had gone into the compilation, but some of the modders [...]

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By: Aaron http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-235 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:19:27 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-235 @Tyler

Lawsuits may result in serious legal repercussions if threats against someone’s life are made. Such an uncharacteristic display of behaviour against someone (even asking to have their ISP down!) could very well have been accompanied by far more serious threats. After all, I have read some of the terrible language that was used by these modders (I believe various comments of hatred can still be found around YouTube); so expecting that one or two of them may take their threats further is not that strange to believe. All I was saying is that when given too much grief from ‘righteous’ modders, you can begin to make a note of the abuse you receive.

“…after such a ridiculous display of trolling”

Trolling refers to inflammatory remarks which are also extraneous and off-the-topic. In this case, his arguments are well thought out and not intentionally inflammatory. On the contrary, he presents his own take on the matter; whether you like it or not. Even if Mana Pool decided to exercise their ‘legal right’ and kick Evil Tactician out by listening to the demands of a few angry modders who demand crucifixion, in a totalitarian sort of way, then of course they can do so. But it could hardly be considered morally acceptable to do such a thing, so I am surprised you brought it up.

As the old saying goes: “The letter of the law can be deadly”.

“…, your cited cases are quite old, and in all likelihood have been superseded by more recent, and relevant cases. Regardless, they are for differing technologies, and I’d be surprised if they could even be considered for stare decisis.”

On the contrary, if there is legal precedent for something it makes it more likely that something similar may apply again. There is much similarity in the two cases and I am not sure to what extent the ‘differing technologies’ aspect would make much difference here at all; the facts could be perceived as being substantially the same. But as you admit yourself one way or another “you’d be surprised if..” which indicates that you are not certain. The point was that this is a matter for courts and the ‘legality’ or ‘illegality’ is not something as transparent.

Evil Tactician did not support any illegal action. Not only because the illegality is clearly not transparent without actual resorting to court but also because he only spoke his mind. He did not support the idea of e.g. keeping the mod running up or claimed he would run the mod on his site, or some specific evidence that showed actual support. He supported the action only by words, by showing what he thinks is right. It is called Freedom of Speech; you may have heard of the concept.

“By the way, this article and discussion are from early January. It’s now the end of April. I think you need to scroll down on whatever news feed/syndication service you use; you’re falling a bit behind.”

I am sure I am. However, what happens next is not the point; the point is that certain people behaved in a way which was completely inexcusable. I have managed to gather a list of such names. It is very important for me to know who these modders are so I can avoid using their mods in the future.

As far as Bethesda is concerned, they should also get their act right and explain to what degree a derivative work based upon a mod belongs to the author and in what way. They have the right but more importantly the responsibility to make these things more clear to the end user.

It doesn’t take long for a modding community to fall apart and for people to lose trust in those that until recently they looked up to. It’s a pity, but a fact of life.

Time to move on.

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By: Tyler http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-234 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 08:56:29 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-234 Ad hominem attacks are never the way to go, Aaron. Your entire post is discredited now thanks to your closing remarks, almost like Evil Tactician’s entire article above. As for my phrase on “legal recourse”, I wasn’t referring to a lawsuit. I was referring to Mana Pool exercising their legal right to get rid of Evil Tactician after such a ridiculous display of trolling. It’s also rare that lawsuits result in imprisonment… be careful that you don’t fall prey to the fallacy of the false dilemma in your reasoning.

By the way, this article and discussion are from early January. It’s now the end of April. I think you need to scroll down on whatever news feed/syndication service you use; you’re falling a bit behind.

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By: Aaron http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-233 Fri, 29 Apr 2011 04:45:11 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-233 @Tyler “Finally, support of an illegal action in the taunting and spiteful manner in which you closed this article with is entirely shameful and also warrants legal recourse.”

So, according to you, if the police catch an alleged thief and I demonstrate in public because I believe the thief is innocent, Freedom of Speech does not apply to me and I would need to resort to legal help for speaking my mind?

Perhaps Richard Stallman, who is against the ridiculous concept of ‘copyright’

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991926848094761035&hl=en#

should be imprisoned for suggesting we demolish the copyright laws we currently have? Wow, your logic is impeccable… not.

“So you might want to get real legal counsel, in case some of the more obstreperous modders affected by this compilation read what you’ve written.”

I would LOVE to see those rambunctious hooligans try to threaten Evil Tactician. For while he is completely free to speak his own mind on any subject he chooses, and no sane lawyer would even remotely dream of trying anything like what you’re suggesting, if however they begin to call him names or to threaten him, Evil Tactician could record the threats and/or slander and take further action. Of course, he wouldn’t get that far unless threats are made against his life.

Speaking of life, here is a suggestion: get one.

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By: TimT http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-232 Sat, 09 Apr 2011 12:50:05 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-232 I have read everyones point of view on this issue, and I support the creator of Morrowind 2011.
This man has done a service to everyone, and it is rather pathetic that so many have carried out a witch hunt against him.

Tyler Smith – I am a businessman from Edmonton, and my lawyer has a fair amount of experience with legal matters pertaining game development. Contact me and I could put you in touch with him, and you can get some free advice.

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By: Lost http://www.manapool.co.uk/morrowind-2011-mod-compilation-threatened/#comment-231 Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:16:34 +0000 http://www.manapool.co.uk/?p=1137#comment-231 @Evil Tactician

[BETA/WIPz] Morrowind Overhaul – Sounds & Graphics :

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1156204-betawipz-morrowind-overhaul-sounds-graphics/

The differences are that there is a team behind it, they intend to keep it updated as mods are updated, probably uses some different modders work, and so on. More details in thread linked above.

@hdgfdg

I personally do not care that my work is in his compilation, I do not care that it is in any compilation for TES games. Most modders don’t, it is only a few who did, and they have reason to be angry, taking peoples work and using it without asking it plainly disrespectful, doesn’t matter his intentions. People need to learn a bit of respect, a simple PM or email asking “Do you mind if I use your work in my compilation” is not a very difficult task.

Making the compilation in a manner that all the included mods work together is a courtesy to the user more then the modder. If not all of the mods are compatible it should be noted, again a courtesy mostly for the user.

As for /v, if that is so, and I do not doubt it, then Tyler should probably be angry with them not Beth or the modders, they are most likely the reason he was IP banned

And lastly, for whatever reason this one blew up, it was all over the net, even Bethesda had a tweet about it (sense removed). I have no clue why it got so much attention, even before the authors were involved. I would imagine that the reason this didn’t happen to the other /v compilation is because nobody really knew about it.

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